Affichage des articles dont le libellé est 2.8.. Afficher tous les articles
Affichage des articles dont le libellé est 2.8.. Afficher tous les articles

jeudi 23 janvier 2014

Re: The potential for a Python 2.8. topic




On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Roy Smith <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Chris Angelico <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Roy Smith <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >> Python 2.8j?
>> >
>> > You're imagining things.

>>
>> Get real... s'not gonna happen.
>>

> I wouldn't bet on that. The situation keeps getting tensor and tensor.


I can't complain, really. This was a perfectly rational discussion
until I suggested "e.1".

ChrisA





Re: The potential for a Python 2.8. topic




On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Terry Reedy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Burying 'Python 2.8' was the purpose of PEP 404. It is kind of bizarre.
> Developers informally said 'No 2.8'. People would not believe that. So
> developers formally said 'No 2.8'. They even inverted the purpose of PEP to
> make the formal announcement visible and permanent. And a few people still
> do not want to believe it.


Can I get a new version of Java 1.1.8 please? I want it to include all
the cool features that I want from the newer versions, but it has to
still run all my existing code. I'm not going to put in any effort to
actually _make_ this, I want you to do it for me.

Actually, the Java versioning system was enough of a mess that, to
this day, I don't know what version(s) my old Java code would and
wouldn't run on. So glad to have moved away from that. At least with
Python, semantic versioning [1] means everyone knows what everyone's
talking about. Python 2.8 has to be broadly compatible with 2.7 and
doesn't have to be compatible with 3.3. (Which, incidentally, is at
odds with some people's idea of a 2.8, which would be incompatible
with both. I'm not sure what that would be called - e.1? sqrt(8).0?
Something else?)

The noise asking for a 2.8 isn't going to die down any time soon.
It'll flare up again every time there's a significant event in the
2.7's end of life: when it goes into source-only support, when its
python.org support ends entirely, when Debian's next version won't
ship it, when Red Hat's ditto ditto, when it's no longer possible to
get it from Ubuntu's repositories, etc, etc, etc. And no amount of
"There will be no 2.8 unless you make it yourself!" will change that.

That's my prediction.

ChrisA

[1] Not sure if Python's actually stated that http://semver.org/
principles are guaranteed to be followed, but they're certainly
approximated to





Re: The potential for a Python 2.8. topic




On 1/23/2014 8:00 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

> The noise asking for a 2.8 isn't going to die down any time soon.


I suspect you meant "isn't going to die completely"

> It'll flare up again every time there's a significant event in the
> 2.7's end of life: when it goes into source-only support, when its
> python.org support ends entirely, when Debian's next version won't
> ship it, when Red Hat's ditto ditto, when it's no longer possible to
> get it from Ubuntu's repositories, etc, etc, etc. And no amount of
> "There will be no 2.8 unless you make it yourself!" will change that.
>
> That's my prediction.


Sadly, mine too. Maybe the flareup peaks will gradually become lower. Or
maybe they will not be discussed so much on python-list.

--
Terry Jan Reedy






Re: The potential for a Python 2.8. topic




On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Terry Reedy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On 1/23/2014 8:00 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> The noise asking for a 2.8 isn't going to die down any time soon.

>
> I suspect you meant "isn't going to die completely"


Sorry, yeah. "die off" is the expression I should have used.
Presumably it *will* die down in between the renewals, otherwise we
wouldn't recognize the renewals.

>> It'll flare up again every time there's a significant event in the
>> 2.7's end of life: when it goes into source-only support, when its
>> python.org support ends entirely, when Debian's next version won't
>> ship it, when Red Hat's ditto ditto, when it's no longer possible to
>> get it from Ubuntu's repositories, etc, etc, etc. And no amount of
>> "There will be no 2.8 unless you make it yourself!" will change that.
>>
>> That's my prediction.

>
> Sadly, mine too. Maybe the flareup peaks will gradually become lower. Or
> maybe they will not be discussed so much on python-list.


Maybe. I suspect that python-list and/or python-dev will see at least
some of the traffic, though - when (say) Debian-next is stated as no
longer shipping with any Python 2.7, there'll be a bunch of Debian
users coming along asking why there won't be a 2.8, and repeat for any
other major distribution in place of Debian.

ChrisA





Re: The potential for a Python 2.8. topic




On 1/23/2014 4:57 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> http://regebro.wordpress.com/2014/01...-a-python-2-8/
>
> I pretty much agree with the author.


Except for one paragraph, which I consider a disservice to readers.

"Does that mean a Python 2.8 can not happen? No, it can. If the Python
"core developers decide that Python 3 was a dead end, then obviously a
"Python 2.8 will happen. But that is a big if, and it certainly isn’t
"going to happen anytime soon.

This will never happen. Python 3 is the escape from several dead-ends in
Python 2. The biggest in impact is the use of un-accented latin chars as
text in a global, unicode world.

"The other way it can happen if somebody forks Python 2, and makes a
"Python 2.8. It will have to be released under another name, though,
"but should “Psnakes 2.8″ become a big success, this may also change
"the core developers minds.

Not mine, and I am sure many if not all others. I believe Python 3 is
already more successful than my first Python, 1.3, was. Python 3 is the
bugfix for several design bugs in Python 1 and 2. The idea that we would
we *ever* unfix those bugs is ludicrous.

> In fact, the sooner this whole
> ludicrous idea of Python 2.8 has been buried under a massive avalanche
> or cremated in a sizeable volcano, then the better for the future of
> Python development.


Burying 'Python 2.8' was the purpose of PEP 404. It is kind of bizarre.
Developers informally said 'No 2.8'. People would not believe that. So
developers formally said 'No 2.8'. They even inverted the purpose of PEP
to make the formal announcement visible and permanent. And a few people
still do not want to believe it.

--
Terry Jan Reedy







The potential for a Python 2.8. topic




http://regebro.wordpress.com/2014/01...-a-python-2-8/

I pretty much agree with the author. In fact, the sooner this whole
ludicrous idea of Python 2.8 has been buried under a massive avalanche
or cremated in a sizeable volcano, then the better for the future of
Python development.

--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence